Thank you for this really informative and well written post, providing clear, concise and important information. I'm always curious when people say that they've 'ruled out pain' in their horse, because, as you say, how can they possibly know?
However I was concerned by your statement 'Most common riding aids work through the targeted application of pain. In textbooks, this is often called ‘pressure’, which is a euphemism for pain, because in order for a horse to learn from the ‘release of pressure’, the pressure needs to be unpleasant in the first place. (More progressive and scientifically savvy trainers admit that pressure-release training requires ‘discomfort’, but I’ve already explained why I don’t like that term.)'
I disagree, and I think you're wrong here.
A sensation of pressure - which is what a sympathetic and educated riding aid is - need not be, and, in horse training, should never be, painful. It is definitely not 'a euphemism for pain'. Yes, pressure CAN be painful, but only if it is excessive or inappropriate. 'Unpleasant' does not equal 'pain'.
Even if pressure does cause an unpleasant sensation it still need not be painful, and the whole point of good quality training is to use the least possible sensation with the aim of minimising the cue as it becomes understood and the response becomes conditioned.
If you are causing pain at any point during this process then you’re going wrong somewhere, and to state so categorically that 'most common riding aids work through the targeted application of pain' is extremely misleading, incorrect and unfair.
Hi Anne! Thank you for your comment and for your interesting thoughts!
You are right that the way I phrased that particular section is provocative, but that was deliberate. It's a philosophical point: I want to jar people into thinking differently about some of the language and concepts we use in horse training, and particularly the prevailing anthropocentrism where we qualify the things we do to horses based on our expectations, rather than their experience.
I think there are really two parts to this: first - and I'm sure you will agree with me on this - crudely applied pressure is often painful, and most people apply pressure very crudely indeed. In a perfect world, people would spend a long time honing their timing and their observation skills before ever coming near a horse, and learn different ways to arrange the environment to avoid having to use escalating pressure, but this is not the reality today.
The principles of operant conditioning are clear in theory, but the real world is often messy with conflicting reinforcers, punishers, and motivations, so in my experience, even highly qualified trainers fail to consistently apply theoretically perfect negative reinforcement. And that is of course OK - I do it too - but I think we need to acknowledge this and stop talking about what's theoretically possible and start talking about what's actually happening.
Secondly, in order for the pressure in negative reinforcement based training (whether physical or mental) to motivate the horse to want to work to get rid of it (i.e. perform an escape response), it needs to be sufficiently unpleasant. And what is 'unpleasant' physical pressure? Does it have to be painful? No. But can it be? Yes, absolutely. So who gets to decide if and when 'unpleasant' becomes 'pain'?
My point is that we can't make that distinction for the horse, only the horse can know what it is experiencing. And if we know that the horse is experiencing an unpleasant sensation, but we can't be sure if it is painful or not, my opinion is that it is better to err on the side of caution and at least acknowledge that it could be painful (or cause fear, if it's mental pressure) even if we don't intend it to be.
The more I read the more I am convinced that the best we as humans can do for horses is to have them as our companions only (no riding/sport or any other bs we make them do) and let them live a disease, hunger and pain free life!
Welcome to the dark side! :) But in all seriousness, the evidence overwhelmingly indicates that many of the things we do to our horses is not in their best interest, and I genuinely believe that we need to rethink some important aspects of the horse-human relationship as it is today.
Horses are more likely to show pain to a human if they trust that person, as well. I have had my old mare express distress to me several times using a distinct behavior that starts with making head-on, direct eye contact (not usual) before trying to indicate the problem--the most obvious case was when she had foxtails embedded in her gums and couldn't get rid of them. Not only did she drop the treats she loved, she went over to her hay pile and showed me that much as she wanted to eat it, she couldn't.
How amazing that she is so expressive with you! Your story reminds me of something dog trainer Kay Laurence once said, that with time and consistent interactions with us that lead to positive outcomes for them, dogs (and presumably all animals) learn that we can help them solve problems they can't solve themselves, such as opening gates, getting tangled in a leash, and even "fixing" pain.
In her old age she has become *quite* expressive indeed, including marching up to me last winter to let me know she needed a heavier blanket. She is in turnout 24/7 with a herd, objects strongly to being stalled and will not seek shelter even in a strong storm (we live in a mountain valley subject to sub-zero F temps in winter). But blankets are acceptable because that means she can be with the herd and not locked up (she spent her first fifteen years in a stall). Even if she has a free-choice shelter, she won't use it.
I had a similar experience with an older mare, a lesson horse, who did the same behavior--full face look at me, then raising her foreleg to tell me that her shoulder hurt--she had a big knot that went away after being rubbed.
Currently building a relationship with a young Morab gelding who is learning to tell me about itchy spots.
How sad it is that this kind of relationship would seem to be so very unusual, isnt it? I believe most of us who "love" our animals wish for something close to that. But you really have to spend time & become tuned in to them AND be empathetic far more than most "owners" of horses or any animal seem to be. AND LISTEN & SEE!
It also takes time. I've been with this horse for almost nineteen years now. But I also spend time watching them at liberty, in herds and paddocks and stalls. Can I always describe what I see? No. But soft focus and paying attention is how you make the connection with any horse.
Its been over 20 years since I had my horse put down. His grave is by the side of the trail out back of the barn where I boarded him - with a pear tree nearby. (He loved pears) The last 12 years at a barn with really great care & I was there pretty much every single night after work and weekends. This barn had about 5-6 saddle horses at the time I moved him there & as many Belgians (pulling horses) After a few years, the big horses were gone, they built an indoor and added two more aisles of stalls - maybe 16 more - up to about 35. My horse was turned out with a small herd of geldings every day - and in the summer all night. It was the absolute best time of my life & I think, his.
I get my "horse fix" now from Anna Blake's blog & others concerned with our Wild Horses.
Tycker verkligen detta är jätte intressant, bra skrivet! Det är så synd att jag ser många av dessa beteenden på min ridskola och på stallet där min medryttarhäst står. Min medryttarhäst rullade sig flera gånger när jag red men ägaren sa bara ”han bara fjantar sig för att slippa jobba! Det är bara att dra upp han och vara mer bestämd om det händer igen” jag tror att han hade ont i ryggen ochar ridit väldigt lite efter det, började istället med lite r+ träning vilket han älskade!
Lite samma sak är på ridskolan, om hästen biter när man sadlar så är den bara lite tjurig och om det vägrar gå fram då testar den ryttaren.
Det är väldigt synd att man inte får lära sig mer om hästens beteende på ridskolan men är väldigt glad över att du lägger ut och skriver om det! Jag har lärt mig massor av dig
Thank you for this really informative and well written post, providing clear, concise and important information. I'm always curious when people say that they've 'ruled out pain' in their horse, because, as you say, how can they possibly know?
However I was concerned by your statement 'Most common riding aids work through the targeted application of pain. In textbooks, this is often called ‘pressure’, which is a euphemism for pain, because in order for a horse to learn from the ‘release of pressure’, the pressure needs to be unpleasant in the first place. (More progressive and scientifically savvy trainers admit that pressure-release training requires ‘discomfort’, but I’ve already explained why I don’t like that term.)'
I disagree, and I think you're wrong here.
A sensation of pressure - which is what a sympathetic and educated riding aid is - need not be, and, in horse training, should never be, painful. It is definitely not 'a euphemism for pain'. Yes, pressure CAN be painful, but only if it is excessive or inappropriate. 'Unpleasant' does not equal 'pain'.
Even if pressure does cause an unpleasant sensation it still need not be painful, and the whole point of good quality training is to use the least possible sensation with the aim of minimising the cue as it becomes understood and the response becomes conditioned.
If you are causing pain at any point during this process then you’re going wrong somewhere, and to state so categorically that 'most common riding aids work through the targeted application of pain' is extremely misleading, incorrect and unfair.
Anne Currie M.Sc Equine Science.
Hi Anne! Thank you for your comment and for your interesting thoughts!
You are right that the way I phrased that particular section is provocative, but that was deliberate. It's a philosophical point: I want to jar people into thinking differently about some of the language and concepts we use in horse training, and particularly the prevailing anthropocentrism where we qualify the things we do to horses based on our expectations, rather than their experience.
I think there are really two parts to this: first - and I'm sure you will agree with me on this - crudely applied pressure is often painful, and most people apply pressure very crudely indeed. In a perfect world, people would spend a long time honing their timing and their observation skills before ever coming near a horse, and learn different ways to arrange the environment to avoid having to use escalating pressure, but this is not the reality today.
The principles of operant conditioning are clear in theory, but the real world is often messy with conflicting reinforcers, punishers, and motivations, so in my experience, even highly qualified trainers fail to consistently apply theoretically perfect negative reinforcement. And that is of course OK - I do it too - but I think we need to acknowledge this and stop talking about what's theoretically possible and start talking about what's actually happening.
Secondly, in order for the pressure in negative reinforcement based training (whether physical or mental) to motivate the horse to want to work to get rid of it (i.e. perform an escape response), it needs to be sufficiently unpleasant. And what is 'unpleasant' physical pressure? Does it have to be painful? No. But can it be? Yes, absolutely. So who gets to decide if and when 'unpleasant' becomes 'pain'?
My point is that we can't make that distinction for the horse, only the horse can know what it is experiencing. And if we know that the horse is experiencing an unpleasant sensation, but we can't be sure if it is painful or not, my opinion is that it is better to err on the side of caution and at least acknowledge that it could be painful (or cause fear, if it's mental pressure) even if we don't intend it to be.
The more I read the more I am convinced that the best we as humans can do for horses is to have them as our companions only (no riding/sport or any other bs we make them do) and let them live a disease, hunger and pain free life!
Welcome to the dark side! :) But in all seriousness, the evidence overwhelmingly indicates that many of the things we do to our horses is not in their best interest, and I genuinely believe that we need to rethink some important aspects of the horse-human relationship as it is today.
Thank you for this post!
Horses are more likely to show pain to a human if they trust that person, as well. I have had my old mare express distress to me several times using a distinct behavior that starts with making head-on, direct eye contact (not usual) before trying to indicate the problem--the most obvious case was when she had foxtails embedded in her gums and couldn't get rid of them. Not only did she drop the treats she loved, she went over to her hay pile and showed me that much as she wanted to eat it, she couldn't.
How amazing that she is so expressive with you! Your story reminds me of something dog trainer Kay Laurence once said, that with time and consistent interactions with us that lead to positive outcomes for them, dogs (and presumably all animals) learn that we can help them solve problems they can't solve themselves, such as opening gates, getting tangled in a leash, and even "fixing" pain.
In her old age she has become *quite* expressive indeed, including marching up to me last winter to let me know she needed a heavier blanket. She is in turnout 24/7 with a herd, objects strongly to being stalled and will not seek shelter even in a strong storm (we live in a mountain valley subject to sub-zero F temps in winter). But blankets are acceptable because that means she can be with the herd and not locked up (she spent her first fifteen years in a stall). Even if she has a free-choice shelter, she won't use it.
I had a similar experience with an older mare, a lesson horse, who did the same behavior--full face look at me, then raising her foreleg to tell me that her shoulder hurt--she had a big knot that went away after being rubbed.
Currently building a relationship with a young Morab gelding who is learning to tell me about itchy spots.
How sad it is that this kind of relationship would seem to be so very unusual, isnt it? I believe most of us who "love" our animals wish for something close to that. But you really have to spend time & become tuned in to them AND be empathetic far more than most "owners" of horses or any animal seem to be. AND LISTEN & SEE!
It also takes time. I've been with this horse for almost nineteen years now. But I also spend time watching them at liberty, in herds and paddocks and stalls. Can I always describe what I see? No. But soft focus and paying attention is how you make the connection with any horse.
Its been over 20 years since I had my horse put down. His grave is by the side of the trail out back of the barn where I boarded him - with a pear tree nearby. (He loved pears) The last 12 years at a barn with really great care & I was there pretty much every single night after work and weekends. This barn had about 5-6 saddle horses at the time I moved him there & as many Belgians (pulling horses) After a few years, the big horses were gone, they built an indoor and added two more aisles of stalls - maybe 16 more - up to about 35. My horse was turned out with a small herd of geldings every day - and in the summer all night. It was the absolute best time of my life & I think, his.
I get my "horse fix" now from Anna Blake's blog & others concerned with our Wild Horses.
Tycker verkligen detta är jätte intressant, bra skrivet! Det är så synd att jag ser många av dessa beteenden på min ridskola och på stallet där min medryttarhäst står. Min medryttarhäst rullade sig flera gånger när jag red men ägaren sa bara ”han bara fjantar sig för att slippa jobba! Det är bara att dra upp han och vara mer bestämd om det händer igen” jag tror att han hade ont i ryggen ochar ridit väldigt lite efter det, började istället med lite r+ träning vilket han älskade!
Lite samma sak är på ridskolan, om hästen biter när man sadlar så är den bara lite tjurig och om det vägrar gå fram då testar den ryttaren.
Det är väldigt synd att man inte får lära sig mer om hästens beteende på ridskolan men är väldigt glad över att du lägger ut och skriver om det! Jag har lärt mig massor av dig